annual election ~~ voting on the budget
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The annual meeting gives PO's a chance to vote on members of the board. We also have the task of voting on the annual budget and any other issue that comes up to the membership.
So this year, before we all just say OK to the annual budget, take a minute to check it out. And think about this...
Is a balanced budget important to alpine property owners?
Should we continue to budget large losses in specific departments?
Just something for you to think about. Also, if you will not attend the meeting, be sure to request your absentee ballot.
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The annual meeting gives PO's a chance to vote on members of the board. We also have the task of voting on the annual budget and any other issue that comes up to the membership.
So this year, before we all just say OK to the annual budget, take a minute to check it out. And think about this...
Is a balanced budget important to alpine property owners?
Should we continue to budget large losses in specific departments?
Just something for you to think about. Also, if you will not attend the meeting, be sure to request your absentee ballot.
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Where can a property owner see the proposed budget if they are not going to be at the annual meeting?
Is the absentee ballot going to show the budget or just a yes or no vote?
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Jeffery, I have done an extensive study of the proposed budget. I will be reporting all of my findings on my blog shortly. However, in summary, here are some answers to your questions: The proposed budget appeared in the April 2008 Newsletter, which is sent to all property owners. So you can pull that one out and see the overview (synopsis) of what is being voted on. There are a couple of glaring mistakes on it. First, it forecasts continued losses on the pool which is now defunct and likely not to be in service for a long time. So, that line item needs to be corrected. My other problem with it is that this budget, and the forecasted budgets through 2011 provide for increased losses in the Resort Food Service line rather than a decrease, which should be the target. In addition, last year's budget called for a profit in the Resort Bar line, but in fact, we lost money again this year in the bar. (How this happens I am at a loss to explain.) So, I personally do not think this is a budget which forces a reduction in losses. It continues the same path of losses as we have had in the past. Therefore, I will not support it.
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1) There is time for those in charge of the budget to revise it before the voting.
2) Per our Pres in an email to me, dated 19 May 2008:
"Our GM has, and is, putting a lot of effort into whittling down the operational cost of our restaurant."
Loring
How can there be forecasted increases in Food Service Losses if this is so?
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John, There has been no attempt to reduce the losses in the restaurant. Although GM has been looking at reducing the expenses, no action to date has been really effective to the extent it needs to be. I have been analyzing the proposed budget in great detail. I believe a much more dramatic set of actions need to be implemented to reduce the losses to something we can live with. I'm going to go into some of my ideas on my blog - the article "Money Matters" should be posted no later than tonight. Please do visit the blog and take a look at what I'm suggesting. Would love to have feedback from everyone.
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Reducing losses implies increasing revenues or cutting expenses, there are no other alternatives that I am aware of.
Since increasing revenues seems to be an impractical goal, I am curious to see how we are going to whittle our way to profitability.
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Revenues can be increased by enticing more patrons, AND by increasing the menu prices. Restaurant patrons should pay more per plate since they get the primary benefit. The rest of us who have an improved lot and and unimproved contiguous lot paid $222.05 each to cover the deficit (based on last year's figures).
While I believe some type of food service is desireable, e.g. a Grill or Canteen, a full service restaurant to serve the few at the expense of the many is imprudent and irresponsible.
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"While I believe some type of food service is desireable, e.g. a Grill or Canteen, a full service restaurant to serve the few at the expense of the many is imprudent and irresponsible." - Well said. If you have seen some of my previous postings you would know that I could not agree more.
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Gentlemen, I believe you are both correct however, I believe that there is a solution to the problem with food service. I am of the opinion that with some creative thinking (new ideas) that we could have a food service. It would not resemble our current state however, I believe it would prove to be a REAL AMENITY that even I would use. We must think positive as our future community depends on it!
Best Regard,
Dennis Sarno
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Diana, can we post the budget on this forum?
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If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. IF the PO do not pass the budget, what happens then? What is the impact if the budget is disapproved?
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A BUSINESS PLAN is considered your ROADMAP IN BUSINESS, which I haven't heard discussed by PO, BOD or GM. You are correct, if you don't know where your are going, you will take any road, but a budget does not tell you where you are going, your goals or how to get there or accomplish your goals it simply provides the financial data required for your journey.
A budget is only one part of a business plan which indicates the cash required, costs associated with operations, revenues needed, and expected profit. If a budget indicates you need more revenues than you earn you adjust the budget by reducing expenses, expanding sales and the least desirable option lower your profit expectations. Budgets are adjusted and reworked as many times as necessary, it is much easier to deal with costly errors on paper than deal with actual losses.
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Good point on the business plan and budget. Are you running for the board, you could get my vote! Point, we think a 3-5 year Strategic Business Plan must be developed based on our Mission Statement(back to basics). This will provide us with a specific direction (road map) for the future of our community. Of equal importance, we are of the opinion, that for now, commercial operations are and will continue to lose money and lots of it. Anyone that understand capacity planning can understands why this is happening. The simple answer that more owners need to use it, is just not going to work either. (I travel and eat out way to much so when I get to the house I like to cook and grill out for my family). However, we keep chasing these commercial opportunities and keep hoping to make money...it will not happen. Having said that, a budget needs to be developed based on a fixed income and it is a suspicion, that we may have enough income to cover our expenses if immediate adjustments are accomplished. I am not talking about closing everything down however, we must be realistic about what we can afford now and what we need in the future. As you know, in any business, if you don't know what your break-even is, you have no idea of what to charge, you have no idea of what you can afford and most of all, you have no way of knowing what needs fixed. One thing we all know right now is that we are losing about 2.5 million in 5 years with nothing to show. Since the assessments are covering this loss that would mean the Board is shelling out discretionary income, from our assessments, that we could be using to upgrade or purchase assets for our community. Now is the time for change as the money pot is growing with fading accountability and NO ROAD MAP!
Regards,
Dennis
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Nice information. BUT, what happens if the PO don't approve the budget at the meeting??????????????
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Bob, as I understand it from reading the bylaws, if the proposed budget is not approved, the Board of Directors could then present to the membership a revised budget proposal which would subsequently be voted on at a special meeting, which would have proper advance notice. This would provide absentee votes to be cast as well as from those in attendance at that special meeting. Then, a quorum of a minumum of 40 voters would be required to make the results of the votes official. So, to answer your question, a future vote of a revised budget could be inacted by calling a special meeting and vote, with duly publicized advance notice, so a quorum of no less than 40 could be achieved, and that includes those who vote via absentee. Although it may seem like a long, drawn out process, I suspect a new board would want to tackle the job of revising a budget as a priority and have the voting happen asap. In the meantime, the operations would continue as directed by the members of the BoD.
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I don't see where there is any other choice than to vote no to the current budget. It makes no sense to vote yes on expenses for a nonexistant pool and a financially draining restaurant.
If it is voted down - would the new board members be the ones involved in the revision?
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It almost appears that the budget proposal process is out of sync with the board membership process. Seems to me that the new board should set the budget that they have to operate with.
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Mr. Hart. Keep in mind that the majority of the board stays in place at each election. It's only the newly elected members that will work with the budget they did not have input on.
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Chris, in answer to your question, yes, the new board members would be the ones to create a new budget and get it approved. The day of the election when the vote occurs is also the day when the new board members begin their service.
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I am somewhat confused on this message.
Why would only the new members work on a new budget and not the whole board? It seems to me the budget is a document that if not approved should be reworked and revised not recreated in total by just the newly elected members, it would required the engagement of all BOD members.
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Sorry for the confusion. Yes, of course, the whole board, including the incumbents and the new members, would work on the budget. Thanks for pointing out a somewhat less than clear message.
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Hey Chris ~ the budget is dozens of pages long. I am hoping the board posts it on their website so all property owners can see it. At the present time, it is only available at the front desk.
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JBrohawn ~ with the numbers you have given, a break even food operation and no pool means that our property assessments could be lowered by 25%. That is a lot of money!!
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Although I find it hard to believe that our assessments will ever be reduced, even if we can lower our expenses, it makes me wonder how potential property owners would be view lower HOA fees.
It could lead to making AL a more attractive location to buy and build.
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To All:
A couple of things regarding the budget, I will vote against this years proposal. I will take my chances with the new board and hope that they will develop a budget that addresses this endless process of spending PO's money for losing interest. Secondly, I was at the meeting where the board reported that the new fees for transfer and new house application has created all of this wonderful income. This money is such a small part of the revenue stream that it is meaningless and maybe be a huge marketing negative to perspective owners. In 2006,2007,2008 we will have lost 1.5 million...for what? You are right, we will never see a reduction unless there are new team members on the board with a new agenda and a clear view on moving forward with new ideas and a much more conservative approach to doing business with our money. Enjoy the day!
Dennis
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Dennis,
I just mailed my absentee ballot (part two) back to Alpine this morning. I don't mind saying publicly that I voted against the budget recommendation. It may end up being just a symbolic gesture, but I do feel the message needs to be sent to the BOD that our financial problems are not being adequately addressed. I believe we need to get our budget "in the black" before we take on the question of what to do with the lodge. I also am in favor of Alpine becoming a private residential community where the amenities are for the use of the property owners - the golf course and food service being the exception. For the record, I am not angry with anyone on the Board. Everyone at Alpine has certainly been nice to me and my wife. I do however, want my concerns to be heard.
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I have to say Mr Trammell has a good point. Lets get our house in order. We are good, but we can be alot better. The fees and assentments make me wonder if Marylands Governor Omalley hasnt bought property up here.Lets be the best and do what we can as we can. As for me , im going out looking for honey. Pray I dont get into a jam. Bearwalker.
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Michael,
You have to start somewhere, so good job. In an earlier communication, on this site, I mentioned "capacity planning" for a reason. I may be going out on a limb here but follow with me. I think your wishes to become a private community have been echoed and are supported throughout this blog. Of equal importance the lodge, golf course, restaurant and the pool are also concerns. So, we know that the golf course must be maintained and we also know that PO's would like to have a restaurant. Let me first say, I know everyone does not play golf so any recommendations would HAVE to provide an attraction for both golfers and none golfers. I would suggest that all of these activities be reviewed to know what your average load for a week/weekend, for specific months of the year for each of these amenities. I know the data is available and if it has not already been done, this data must be recorded on 1 spread sheet and sorted for analyzing. If we really wanted to analyze our potential, why not have this information gathered at the gate instead of saying "this many people passed through theses gates", BUT WHY? Then and only then can you start to realize your potential to fill your capacity for either the golf course, restaurant and any other amenity we wish to maintain. It is all about capacity planning and marketing to fill that capacity. If your were going to start a new company or expand an existing business, one of the first things you do, you analyze your potenial to increase revenue and annalyze what capacity requirements are needed. From a business perspective, I see things going on that I do not understand. I do believe that we are not solving our problems, we are treating the symtom. Look, we know without a doubt, and no one can argue that we are losing large amounts of money chasing these "COMMERICAL" interst...why? Becuase, the problem is that, we can not support the debt service is takes to make money in these interest because we can not meet the capicity requirements to breakeven, let alone make money. I have got to run, thanks for listening.
Dennis Sarno
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We just received our new absentee ballot. Hopefully future ballots will be condensed so that PO's can vote for directors and issues to be voted on by the membership all on one ballot. Are the current recommendations unanimous?
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Between the gas prices and the real estate bust - the BOD at Alpine has got to become realistic about ammenities and PO expenses.
I realize the people on the board are volunteers and may be very nice people.
But I think we have all learned an important lesson here. We need people with expertise and experience at the helm to guide Alpine into financial solvency and make it attractive to investors and residents.
Alpine is clearly not in any way a vehicle for commercial success. It is obvious to everyone except the current board members that it's appeal and success is as a private residential community.
I hope that all who are following this research the current budget and vote against it. It is absurd at best and I worry about PO mounting lawsuits against Alpine as their money and investment is squandered and their voices ignored.
Does anyone know if there are any laws regarding HOA and BOD in West Virginia which can protect us should the right people not be voted in and this nonsense continue?
One of my big concerns is who is counting the votes?
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So assume that the budget passes or doesn't pass. What then? Does the Board and General Manager LIVE WITHIN THE BUDGET? Or spend as they see fit?
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Bob~ alpine has always budgeted for gi-normous losses. Staying within the budget while losing $250,000 in the restaurant every year is easy. Add in losses from the pool and bar and we are talking big money. It is not a balanced budget if we are budgeting for huge loss in commercial ops. This is, of course, just my opinion.
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